Curse

Emik · Oct 15, 2007, 10:39 PM // 22:39

I find it very disturbing and worrying that people come in here asking for a generalisation of getting things done.
Each and every person I know has one character they get titles with and now here come the completely lazy people asking to make it account based.
If you can't cope with the fact that you'll be missing out with several characters then don't create so many?
I think that's the only real issue at hand.
It's incredible to see people reply with "Oh but I have 24 characters across 3 accounts and i can't be arsed to do everything over again."
It's easy isn't it.
Make less characters and get real...
The game is incredibly easy to get things done and still the whining continues.
I can only start to imagine how it will be for GW2.
Pathetic.

BlackSephir · Oct 15, 2007, 11:08 PM // 23:08

How the hell having 3 pve characters equals having 24 pve characters?

Idiotic and pathetic.

ValaOfTheFens · Oct 15, 2007, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Wow. I can't believe this thread is still going.

I don't understand why the GWEN rep titles should be account based. I understand why the titles that are already account based are. It takes an ungodly amount of time and effort to achieve them and so they need to account based. But it hardly takes any effort of attain the SS/LB and GWEN rep titles. Until 2 weeks ago my Ranger was a Commander and had only done up to Venta Cemetary but by yesterday afternoon she was in RoT and a Castellan, well on her way to becoming a Spearmarshal btw. I rarely SS/LB farm and I only do it on my Necro, who I've chosen to heap most of the titles on. Normal gameplay should be enough to quickly advance in the ranks of the rep titles. Unless you don't want to do any quests or dungeons or even go into explorable areas. *shrug* Maybe some people play GWEN for the spectacular scenery or hours and hours of non-stop Polymock(Fire Imp, I choose you!).

nugzta · Oct 15, 2007, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

explain that please?

Your stance/argument in this issue is that the benefits of the titles must be exclusive based on title rank of each character has achieved. By giving double standard means you simply make different treatment on the benefits themselves.

In this case:
Armor/PvE skills are not OK to be available for the people (in specific a character) who dont have the required rank.
Yet on the other hand Consumable items and crafted weapon is OK and acceptable by your standard.

Quote:

But otherwise I dont mind who uses them, but I still dont mind the rank requirement to buy them in the first place because the rank needed is exstremley easy to attain.

So here you break your own stance/argument and make some exceptions for whatever you think it is appropriate. So at this point, Im expecting you to be consistent with your argument which means you should also enforce the exclusivity of consumable items and crafted weapons limited to the characters who have the required rank.

RadFlamer · Oct 15, 2007, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yggdrasil

/signed x10

This is a brilliant idea that could help those of us who don't have all the time in the world to play have a reasonable chance of getting some of these titles. Not to mention the given reasons.

so people who have lives should have all the titles too?
zzz /notsigned

bilateralrope · Oct 16, 2007, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Right, im not saying otherwise. But you choose to start a new character, knowing fine well you will have to replay all the content again.

So how can you and others complain about having to re-earn points?

Because a new character means that the stuff we redo is made different because of us having a different class, and we only have to do it again once. But grinding up the points involves repeating the exact same task over and over.

Quote:

Dont agrue otherwise because I did it. I had rank 5 on all races within 2 weeks of playing. And it wasnt hardcore playing, it was casual playing of a few hours a night.

Two weeks on one character and your not even maxed out, yet you try to use that as an argument. Lets say your meaning that your character is 1 point off rank 6 in all the titles. That is 39'999 out of 160'000 points, so just under 1/4 complete.

And thats only if you stick to one character, instead of changing between them because you got bored with one.

Quote:

And where in gods name did you get the impression Im trying to push pve only skills onto elite players. Have you read any posts ive wrote concerning pve only skills?

Because you seem to be saying that the highest stats should only be obtainable to the people who have either been playing for ages, or are able to grind at it a lot more.

Quote:

I've continually said that pve only skills are not critical to anything. I dont see why people see any importance in them. It really bewilders me when you get players trying to suggest that certain areas or zones (i.e elite areas) require you to use them.

Its not that the PvE skills are needed or not. Its that by requiring grinding, ANET is denying stat bonuses to people who don't repeat am arbitrarily chosen, non challenging task that they may not enjoy an arbitrary number of times ?

Quote:

2) Ranks above 5 are compeltely optional because pve only skills and status effects are not critical to anything. That is the message im trying to get accross to people.

However you are also saying that to become better in a game played for enjoyment, people should go repeat some non-challenging task an arbitrary number of times to become stronger.

Where is the fun in that ?

Quote:

Are you suggesting that you shouldnt be asked to complete the game first on a character before you get access to stuff like armor and weapons?

I am not asking that. Even if the armor crafter or skill givers were only accessible after killing the end boss once I wouldn't complain. What I am complaining about is having to repeat a task several times to get the armor, when it doesn't make any sense to repeat it. For instance grinding up gold for an expensive armor makes sense because the crafter is being stingy.

But having to increase your reputation with a group by killing the same foes over and over, even after you just went and defeated their great enemy. How does that make any sense ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emik

I find it very disturbing and worrying that people come in here asking for a generalisation of getting things done.
Each and every person I know has one character they get titles with and now here come the completely lazy people asking to make it account based.
If you can't cope with the fact that you'll be missing out with several characters then don't create so many?
I think that's the only real issue at hand.
It's incredible to see people reply with "Oh but I have 24 characters across 3 accounts and i can't be arsed to do everything over again."
It's easy isn't it.
Make less characters and get real...
The game is incredibly easy to get things done and still the whining continues.
I can only start to imagine how it will be for GW2.
Pathetic.

So why exactly is the current system any better than having the titles account based ?

Why do we have 8 character slots per account if we aren't meant to make multiple characters ?

Personally I created a lot of my characters before the PvE only skills came out. So am I supposed to throw away those characters ?

Why should work performed across multiple characters only reward one of them ? (example: wisdom title)

Why are the lucky and unlucky titles account based when the other PvE grind titles are all character based ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHunterX

/verysigned!

How about this: When you are low level, you only have access to a certain degree of the title you've earned on the account. You have a level 20 Warrior with Legendary Delver. You have a level 3 Monk, and since its level isn't maxed, the title for him/her isn't maxed either, and only goes so high per level.
<snip example>
You could even link access to title progress unlocked on the account to how far you are in in the story line of each particular track on a character, so it "follows lore."

So you want the title account based, but you need perform certain achievements on each character to get any effect beyond a certain level ?

Sounds good to me.

Snow Bunny · Oct 16, 2007, 03:07 AM // 03:07

Or....

seeing as grind titles aren't representative of skill in the slightest, you should get the ingame benefits but should be unable to display the title on all characters but the one who's grinded it all out. Seeing as the more vocal proponents of this idea have expressed how dreadfully terrible it is to do some work if you want a certain achievement/bonus, and it's not about displaying a title, right?

I'm sorry, but your rebuttals are terrible Bilateral, so...

I'll just put out a better idea.

Zahr Dalsk · Oct 16, 2007, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

seeing as grind titles aren't representative of skill in the slightest, you should get the ingame benefits but should be unable to display the title on all characters but the one who's grinded it all out. Seeing as the more vocal proponents of this idea have expressed how dreadfully terrible it is to do some work if you want a certain achievement/bonus, and it's not about displaying a title, right?

That'd actually be really good since I think a lot of us just want the ability to get Norn/Asuran/Vanguard/Dwarven armours for characters without grinding out the faction for each one. Not being able to display it is no problem, all that matters is unlocking the armour crafter.

bilateralrope · Oct 16, 2007, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Or....

seeing as grind titles aren't representative of skill in the slightest, you should get the ingame benefits but should be unable to display the title on all characters but the one who's grinded it all out. Seeing as the more vocal proponents of this idea have expressed how dreadfully terrible it is to do some work if you want a certain achievement/bonus, and it's not about displaying a title, right?

Yes, this should satisfy everyone.

Quote:

I'm sorry, but your rebuttals are terrible Bilateral, so...

In other words your not going to even attempt to give a rebuttal to the reasons I put in the OP, nor are you going to say why having character based grind titles is better than account based ?

If I missed one of your posts where you did that, feel free to point to it again.

Snow Bunny · Oct 16, 2007, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

Yes, this should satisfy everyone.

<----Has provided a solution that despite being reasonable, won't be implemented because ANet doesn't implement anything in Sardelac/is working on GW2.

GG

/closethread

Vinraith · Oct 16, 2007, 06:48 AM // 06:48

Nothing in PvE should ever be account based aside from storage (which is a necessary concession in an item collection game like this).

arcanemacabre · Oct 16, 2007, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

Nothing in PvE should ever be account based aside from storage (which is a necessary concession in an item collection game like this).

Well, there goes access to all skills unlocked on the account (for purchase and for heroes), Kurzick/Luxon faction, and hard mode unlocked on all level 20's when a chapter has been completed on an account. But, ya know, storage is fine; that can be shared.

Is there any method behind your madness, or are you just spouting unfounded beliefs? Because this just doesn't make any sense to me.

freekedoutfish · Oct 16, 2007, 08:16 AM // 08:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugzta

In this case:
Armor/PvE skills are not OK to be available for the people (in specific a character) who dont have the required rank.
Yet on the other hand Consumable items and crafted weapon is OK and acceptable by your standard..

i think youve completely confused what im trying to say!

All im saying that it makes no difference needing rank 3 for consumables and rank 5 for armor and weapons because both ranks are extremely easy to reach.

I simply cannot understand the issue with needing rank 5 or 3 because you can reach those levels by just playing the game and all its aspects.

I then also said any rank above 5 which then impect pve only skills are optional. Your not being forced to increase them unless you feeel some need to have those pve only skills be max. But even then, rank 5-10 is also easy to reach now due to the update.

But im also saying I dont think its right that once you have bought those consumables, you can then trade or give them to low level characters.

You dont seem to understand my point on this.

Im trying to quite simply say that rank5 is easy to get and any ranks above 5 are optional, but also alot easier to get now due to the update.

In other words the reputation ranks are no longer a huge grind to achieve and are infact probably one of the easiest titles ingame to increase.

This is why we dont need them to be account based. Their too easy to increase and even their max level has been reduced from 200k to 160k.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

Because a new character means that the stuff we redo is made different because of us having a different class, and we only have to do it again once. But grinding up the points involves repeating the exact same task over and over.

Well im sorry, but IMO it still harks back to this idea of... what were you expecting when you made a new char?

Did you expect all the content to suddenly change and become random and original and new? I hope not! Ofcourse you were going to haave to redo the same stuff. I just cant understand how you can complain about re-plying the same content again and havng to reearn the same points, after you have knowingly made a new char.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

Because you seem to be saying that the highest stats should only be obtainable to the people who have either been playing for ages, or are able to grind at it a lot more.

Please try to grasp that rank 10 on the gwen reputation points is not going to take a staggering amount of effort. You get 20k for redoin all quests and about 30-40k for redoing all dungeons.

Do the maths and you can see reaching the 160k max isnt going to take much. Even casual players can manage that easily.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

However you are also saying that to become better in a game played for enjoyment, people should go repeat some non-challenging task an arbitrary number of times to become stronger.

Where is the fun in that ?

Your still trying to put some critical importance on the pve only skills in GWEN, when it doesnt exist. Using those pve only skills at max levels isnt going to suddenly make you a better player over night. Most of those pve only skills are very similar to existing skills, but just a bit sooped up.

That is all im saying. These pve only skills are not critical to anything, so why are you and others pushing yourself endlessly to max those ranks out?

Thats my point! You dont need to! There is no importance on being rank 10. The only importance is what your creating and you dont need to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

But having to increase your reputation with a group by killing the same foes over and over, even after you just went and defeated their great enemy. How does that make any sense ?

PLEASE listen here!

Getting rank 5 on all races is do-able by just playing all the game and its aspects. By the end you should have rank 5 on all of them. So ignoring that fact, you can look upon GWEN armor as being unlocked after you complete the game.

Your not being asked to reach rank 5 by doing anything other then completing all aspects of the game. If you dont like finishing all aspects of a game before you unlock stuff then why play an RPG or MMO?

If you needed rank 10 for armor, and you were then expected to earn those points after completing the game I woulld agree. But your not! All points and ranks needed for armor and weapons can be done by just completeing the game.

That is not the same a grind!!!!

Grind is something you do outsde of the normal storyline.

You say you dont mind if armor is endgame and you have to complete it first to get it. GWEN armor is NO different!!

Wacky · Oct 16, 2007, 08:43 AM // 08:43

/signed.

Character based skill related title tracks -> better to play one character -> people (i.e. me) play only one character -> less replay value -> boredom -> bad.

arcanemacabre · Oct 16, 2007, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Well im sorry, but IMO it still harks back to this idea of... what were you expecting when you made a new char?

Two things wrong with this:

1) Of course you would have to go through (or experience) the same content with a new character. This is not the complaint. In fact, this is the main reason for creating a new character - to experience the same content from a "different angle." The point is: grinding the same content over and over solely to become more effective with that new, or even original, character. Key words are "more effective," referencing the PvE skills tied to the titles, not armor.

2) I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I made one character for each class (though I deleted my dervish), before PvE skills (except for the 3 measily ones that came with Nightfall). When I made them, I had no idea I would be faced with having to grind titles in order to become more effective. Again, key words: "more effective."

So, with that said, I am left to decide which character I must consider my "main" and go after those higher tiers with my limited time. Yes, yes, I don't have to, I've seen it all before. Do you remember my rebuttal to that? In case you don't, it's: I don't have to do anything, it's a game. No one has to even be able to complete it. None of the content is mandatory, period.

So where is the limit? Well, it used to be vanity, and only vanity. You want to grind, work, or trade till you had the money for higher end gear? Sure, but only if it had no advantage what-so-ever. That is how it used to be. When titles were introduced, it breathed new life into GW for those who wanted more to work toward - fine. Those of us who wanted to play the game with different characters and experience it in new ways were unaffected.

The limit has moved. It no longer is vanity. Some say it began with Factions, I disagree. Kurzick/Luxon faction did not affect how anyone played their game, it only erected a barrier long enough for those to do side quests until all of their characters on the entire account could complete the game. That wasn't grind, that was forced content. Not that I agree with it, hell all of Factions was kinda forced, but it wasn't grind and it had no bearing on how effective anyone's characters were.

It began with Nightfall, but it was 'acceptable.' The reason for this was by only playing through, not even finishing all the side quests, one could reach 80% efficiency (rank 8 of 10 SS) with the rebirth signet, which was the first PvE-only skill that could be used anywhere. The Lightbringer skills were too limited in their use to be considered important. However, this was still a huge problem - the beginning to skills linked to titles.

This is my biggest beef with how things are in GW, now.

On a lighter note, it's one of my only beefs - everything else about the game is nearly top-notch, IMO. I still enjoy it, and I won't stop playing anytime soon. So yeah, I'm no hater, and well within my rights to carry an opinion others may not agree with. Just throwin' it out there.

EDIT: So what does any of this have to do with this thread? Yeah, forgot that part

I agree with this solution, as I see it as an acceptable compromise between what I want (skills unlinked to titles) and what others want (skills linked to character-based titles). This makes sure the 'work' (shudder) is still there, complete with reward, but it equally rewards those with one character and those with ten.

BlackSephir · Oct 16, 2007, 09:30 AM // 09:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

PLEASE listen here!

Getting rank 5 on all races is do-able by just playing all the game and its aspects. By the end you should have rank 5 on all of them. So ignoring that fact, you can look upon GWEN armor as being unlocked after you complete the game.

How about you stop lying?
R5 Ebon Vanguard. Just by playing the game and completing dungeons. Bwahahaha!

Perfected Shadow · Oct 16, 2007, 09:47 AM // 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emik

I find it very disturbing and worrying that people come in here asking for a generalisation of getting things done.
Each and every person I know has one character they get titles with and now here come the completely lazy people asking to make it account based.
If you can't cope with the fact that you'll be missing out with several characters then don't create so many?
I think that's the only real issue at hand.
It's incredible to see people reply with "Oh but I have 24 characters across 3 accounts and i can't be arsed to do everything over again."
It's easy isn't it.
Make less characters and get real...
The game is incredibly easy to get things done and still the whining continues.
I can only start to imagine how it will be for GW2.
Pathetic.

What's your reason for opposing the idea? How are you affected in any way? If you're affected by 'whining', close the browser/tab/window and don't come back.

Anyway why oppose pve titles becoming account based? What would you lose? I can only see gains for many.

freekedoutfish · Oct 16, 2007, 10:25 AM // 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

So where is the limit? Well, it used to be vanity, and only vanity.

The issue there is; was it ok that vanity was the main reason to play before titles were added?

I was always under the impression GWs was based around skill and not what you owned or looked like. So its a bit wrong to try and argue it was ok when vanity was the goal of all players, but now titles connected to skills is wrong.

Surely its worse to have this "I want to look better then you" mentality then to have a "I want to be more powerfull then you" mentality.

Neither are good, and neither matter, but still!

I understand its not nice to have to re-earn points to max skills out on each character, but as you have admitted.... its all choice. Do you need to have pve only skills maxed out on all your characters? Nope! Is armor and weapons in GWEN hard to unlock with rank 5? Nope!

Before titles are added and connected to pve only skills, I could have argued that FOW armor was unreasonable because it either required grind to farm the materials or being rich to buy them. What with the vanity thing and all. But I was realistic in knowing i didnt need FOW armor so I wasnt bothered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

How about you stop lying?
R5 Ebon Vanguard. Just by playing the game and completing dungeons. Bwahahaha!

Im sorry you dont believe me, but im not lying. I had rank 5 on all races withinn a week of playing. I started on 0 vangard and Asura and within a week I had rank 5 on both from simply doing quests, dungeons and taking bounties as I explored. And drawf and norn points are even easier to make.

Now this was before the 20k reward for all quests and the 30-40k reward for all dungeons. This means you can now easily top up any races that are harder to earn points for.

Again, believe me or not, but I did it! This is why I find all this winging about rank 5 pathetic. And I also find your arguement of "bewhahaha" a bit childish too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perfected Shadow

Anyway why oppose pve titles becoming account based? What would you lose? I can only see gains for many.

There is nothing wrong with suggesting some titles be account based like wisdom and treasure hunting, becaause those titles have HUGE max levels. But GWEN titles max at 160k and those points really are VERY easy to attain.

I would even go as far as saying GWEN titles are some of the easiest ingame to max out.

Likelytodie · Oct 16, 2007, 10:33 AM // 10:33

Only solution I could agree with here, would be Snow's, but even that seems to much. I agree more with Fish that anything. It's not difficult to get these titles, and even a casual player should have little trouble getting them (even if not the max level, a sufficient level for it to be effective) simply through quests, dungeons, etc.

Exterminate all · Oct 16, 2007, 11:36 AM // 11:36

/signed

I really like this idea. I feel it will help the GW economy much until GW2 Releases.